Comment by Els de Groen (Archive) on March 8, 2011 at 22:58

Dear Ciuin,

I fully agree. Education is crucial! I am not R(r)omani, as you know, but I reject this stupid and "romantic" definition of Gypsies.

Perhaps we can combine some of Casimire's ideas and yours. I mean, I understand his proposal to give presents (= examples) and I also understand your referring to Nazis, Hitler, Goering, Himmler, who destroyed art.

Maybe we can be both firm in our rejecting racism and in offering something positive instead. For the Czech event on 12 March this will be too late. We might think of a strong text, forcing Brussels to take a stand.

But in the nearest future we might be better prepared, with declarations and artistic expressions, with tools available.

In the educational process that you stressed, it is extremely important that people understand that what happens to Roma, might also happen to them. If rights are not universal, no one is safe. If Roma are not safe, no one is safe. This is the core message we will have to spread.

X, Els

Comment by Ciuin Ferrin on March 8, 2011 at 23:15

I am currently working on a declaration of sorts, though right now I need to sift the emotionalism out of it. I believe it should be passionate, but not emotional. When I write something like this, I have to write out all of my frustration, anger, and, yes, sometimes arrogance out first, otherwise it becomes a monolog. I'll post it when it flows better.

 

Baxt,

C

Comment by Els de Groen (Archive) on March 8, 2011 at 23:25

I understand, Ciuin!

Thanks!

Baxt,

Els

Comment by Viola Hinz-Hassan Pour Razavi on March 9, 2011 at 9:08

@Ciuin

Yes, I know that there is a lack of information and also of interest to informations from Europe. But what is not understandable for me is the ignorance that you discribed - that they tell you what you are and how you are and what is better for you. Really incredible. They have an imagination and are not willing to let this being corrected by such a stupid thing like reality.

Comment by Els de Groen (Archive) on March 9, 2011 at 15:15

Dear Casimire, Viola and Ciuin,

Today I read about an association in Czech Republic dealing with all these municipalities. I will try to find it again, as it is a quite interesting interview, and forward it to you. About the mayors of the municipalities involved in the Declaration about the Socially unadapted, the association manager says: there is a lack of will, they are not open to other arguments or to facts. He also states however that the 60 or so municipalities cannot be called representative for all Czech municipalities.

I think this is a very interesting statement. Crucial question is: how do you change the mind of those who have closed themselves to changes? Giving them a present won't change them, I am afraid. It might be an interesting signal, however, to people's surroundings. This morning I was addressed by a very interesting NGO (?) in Czech Republic. It works with talented Roma children: dancers, musicians, singers. I watched the children performing. I was really good. I hope they will sign up. What I was thinking of, is the following: why don't we invite children, the talented ones, to draw or paint what they want, what they expect from life. All children have dreams. These dreams, nicely framed, might be handed over to the mayors' collective. We can do this on a regularly basis and publish the drawings or paintings on this site, together with the names of the receivers. They scapegoat, they defame. How will they react on a child's wish to become dancer, dentist or archtitect?

I may sound funny, this, but I interviewed children for many years and I know the power of their statements and opinions.

Els

Comment by Els de Groen (Archive) on March 9, 2011 at 16:11

Hi,

Rights are not given to you, you have to take them. This is also clear from the examples you mentioned. Rosa Parcs (wasn't that her name?) refused to sit on the special seat reserved for blacks. Doing this she claimed her equality. This is much stronger than protesting against your inferiority, right? But anti defamation also means that you do not accept defamation. How should this made be clear? If someone states that I am a thief and a rapist, I can stay silent, I can accuse the accusor and I can present myself in all my dignity. Crucial question is how? Many essential things in life are about this "how"?

Els

Comment by Els de Groen (Archive) on March 9, 2011 at 23:02

There is something strange with the discussion you started. It is under this IRADL Group, but not under Forum discussions. Maybe I am wrong and have to search further...

I need some rest now. Hope that others will come up with ideas how to approach these mayors. I think however that it should be made clear that no one has the right to defame a fellow citizen, let alone to defame collectively. I also think that this is not adaption to their methods. If they violate rights and rules, others should (I hate this word), others are allowed to say this in the open. Stronger: they are even somehow obliged to speak out. The constitutional state is not a stable thing. It should be watched continuously. If there is a fire, we should give an alarm. And while doing this, we prove to be enlightened products of evolution, because we are aware of the threat of darkness.

Els

Comment by Els de Groen (Archive) on March 10, 2011 at 0:23

As we do not like torches and pitchforks, we might use language the others will understand. With the others I mean people not that opportunist as the mayors are. We cannot communicate with those who behave like walls. But voices sent to walls have nevertheless echos. The echos might work.

Els

Comment by Els de Groen (Archive) on March 10, 2011 at 7:48

Comment by Els de Groen (Archive) on March 10, 2011 at 8:11

Dear all!

This night I ruined my sleep, so angry I was. No, not with you. I was angry because feeling powerless. Officials collectively accuse a nation of existing of  rapists, thiefs and lazybones and we ae discussing here on how to approach them.

I am a writer but words are for the long term. Their tongs are faster than my pencil. I fully believe in art, but when you face a fire you need water. Today one bucket will do, tomorrow one might need ten and the day after an ocean.

 

We deal with a flagrant violation that harms both the ones who commit it and the ones who are exposed to defamation. If we take this IRADL serious, we should focus on anti defamation actions. This does not mean that we stoop to their level! We combat defamation, we don't attack mayors or other authorities.

In the Initiative there are at least 4 lawyers: Bajram Haliti, Viktoria Mohasi, Niko Rergo and Edina Tordai. Why not invite them to IRADL and make them our contact persons with ERRC (European Roma Rights Center), Romani Criss and Human Rights Watch? Viktoria is Human Rights Watch Award winner (2010). Why not unite people to people and network to network? Let's not waste time.

 

The cartoon below (a bit funny, in reality the persons are not that thin) I also published with the title "Ballads or bullets?" The Artists' Initiative prefers the clarinet, but should be aware of the speed of bullets. Once more: let's not waste time. Confering and discussing is good and useful, but reality forces us to act. Fundamental human rights are also part of our enlichtened civilization. We are conserving our dignity in defending them.

Els

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