Comment by Glenda Bailey-Mershon on September 9, 2011 at 7:20

Tina, your arguments seem to me to be an apology for a program that is widely viewed throughout Romani communities as exploitative, at best, and, in any case, despicable for its inaccuracies. Exactly how is a program that only ocasionally actually depicts Romani people an attempt to get Romani stories out there? How are its suggestions, for example, that Romani women are not "allowed" to work outside the home, or that Romani men manhandle women at weddings, to be tolerated?

If that is the current historical textbook of the 21st century, then lies and history must be indistinguishable. 

In any case, this is the International Romani Anti-Defamation League, and I think your arguments are out of place here. One would almost think you are working for the folks who make the program.

Comment by Stoimen on September 9, 2011 at 14:18

 

I have learned to know Tina as a hard worker, enthusiast and with trust in mankind. I share her believe in education as a tool to enlighten people. Crucial question is whether commercial products as MBFGW enlighten or mislead. Can we learn from stereotypes and prejudice? I grew up with children's books in which blacks looked funny but were nevertheless dangerous, cooking whites for dinner. I am ashamed that as a child I made drawings based on this perception of primitive people. At the age of 13 I had a girl friend with a black American mother. I found that rather interesting. Thanks to my curious open mind I don't perceive blacks as potential cannibals anymore.

Unfortunately the stereotypes of Roma are more stubborn or persistent. They don't cook and eat non-Roma, but are believed to pay their well-known freedom from non-Roma purses and pockets.

Commercial producers love stereotypes. It is fast food for the mind, it pleases the consumers and it pays well. Our Initiative can counter prejudice in two ways: it can expose prejudice by forwarding true pictures, stories and more. But the IRADL way of protest is as legitimate as the the first way. I strongly believe we need both ways.

Comment by Glenda Bailey-Mershon on September 9, 2011 at 16:35

Apologies to Tina: I meant only to say this group may not be receptive to suggestions that we accept historical inaccuracies and the right of others to stereotype us, since our purpose is to counter such misrepresentations. We know for a fact that children have been harassed in school and there has been street harassment of Romani girls as a result of MBFGW. Some believe it has exacerbated the Dale Farms fiasco. I do not believe others have the right to define us. Tell our own stories? Absolutely! This group is one small part of WAIK and I believe there are many Roma telling our stories here.

Comment by Kristina Burbank on September 13, 2011 at 0:03

My background being what it is, 20 years heavy in conflict resolution, education, psychology, sociology, and world cultures, I realize what I wrote was sensitive and I still felt the time was ripe to put it out their for this group's consideration.

 

I wanted to wait a few days to be sure to respond coming from that highest place again, but I have to respectfully say that still, Ms. G. B-M's words, including apologies, give me the feeling that soon I will be the one next dubbed with the inauthentic Rromani story.

 

Do you see the danger we are in here with this issue? 

 

Thank you, Els, for recognizing the multi-pronged effort needed.

 

much good LOVE & big THANKS to all members of the group - this is delicate work we are doing...

 

 

Comment by Glenda Bailey-Mershon on September 13, 2011 at 2:13

Dear Tina,

 

No, you will not be negated in any way here. I do not pass judgement on anyone's authenticity. My words were meant ironically, but were not well chosen, and that is why I apologized. The last sentence was not intended to be so harsh. I don't think the rest of my comments require an apology. It is up to you whether you choose to accept.

 

I should have thought it was obvious that we are all here engaged in a multi-pronged effort. IRADL is only one part of the overall organization, and most of us are engaged in more than one part. 

 

Nevertheless, I can't say that I agree with your statements. I do not think that I and others here are coming from a "place of discord." And I don't think it's true that most people know enough about Roma to separate out the false from the truth on their own. I'm not even sure that most smile when they hear the word "Gypsy," as you suggest. Many think of the very negative stereotypes that have followed us for centuries: thieves, grimy beggars, dishonest fortunetellers, etc. So we start, I suppose, from a different set of facts and assumptions.

 

Our modus operandi here has been to first approach offering educational material. That is why we have written the press pack, including information about Romani history and Roma of note.

 

The producers of MBFGW were approached not only by myself, but by  a number of others, including Ian Hancock and Ronald Lee, asking them to change their presentation of Romanies, and offering information. The producer, whose name does not come to my tongue at the moment, responded with some very nasty comments, including suggesting to Ian Hancock that he might not be a "real Roma" anymore than some of the people presented in her series. In the next breath, she insisted she had done her homework. Of course, if she had done her homework, she would have known who Ian Hancock is. She insisted she had the right to portray Roma as she wished, including editing out anything she didn't regard as appropriate to her purposes. Her purposes, obviously, are to sensationalize and to profit from portrayals that appeal to people's prejudices.

 

So after a number of approaches to the producers and to A&E, the network, which were all rebuffed, we have arrived at a threat to boycott. They have chosen profits over accuracy and any attempt to ameliorate the damage they have caused, which has been documented and presented to them by Jake Bowers--so many children threatened, so many girls accosted because of the MBFGW portrayal of Romani as assaulters of young women. I choose to deny them their profits at the expense of our people.

 

Some people cannot be educated, because their aims have nothing to do with accuracy or truth. Not everyone's intentions are benign. Not everyone is interested in enlightenment. I think the history of the world, and our own history as a people, more than illustrate those facts. And aggressors do not back down. We do not create the discord. Ignoring aggression against us will not bring peace. If it would, our people would not have died by the millions in O Porrajmos.

 

Elsewhere in this organization, members are busy acting, painting, making music, making poems and stories in order to tell their stories. On this thread, we are talking about monitoring portrayals of Romanies, offering information to those whose portrayals are demonstrably inaccurate, and more assertive action against those who wish to profit from exploiting us. No apologies at all for that.

 

When you raised this issue before, some months ago, I did not respond because I thought it was rather odd to challenge a group's purpose as one's first approach. I hoped you would read back to the beginning and see that we have arrived at this place after considerable discussion about tactics and strategy. The fact that we have chosen a different approach than you have does not make either of us wrong. I have found most progress comes from multiple tactics being applied.

 

 

 

 

Comment by Stoimen on September 13, 2011 at 12:38

 

Isn't this all about education? Tina, you are an educator and you believe in education. It makes sense that we believe in what we are doing. Recently I was called an optimist, because I work so hard for this Initiative. I believe in this Initiative, but I am also aware that believing in something does not automatically turn it into success. I would rather describe myself as a realist and realism includes also some scepticism.

I started working as a teacher some 40 years ago and though I never gave up educating people (working as a journalist, writer, even while being a politician), I witnessed that education very often fails. De history of the human race is full of repetitions, because mankind is not cabale enough to recognize similar signals and symptoms. If history is a good educator, then people are poor pupils.

Apart from the fact that education often fails, we also should wonder WHO or WHAT is educating us. What we learn in life, is far from being neutral. Racist parents will teach their children racist values. TV has become an educator too. This is how MBFGW is teaching the masses that Gypsy girls are used to assaulters and a man's property.

In the past education was mainly based on two pillars: the family and the church and then it was already a huge challenge to bring up children in a sincere and open way, avoiding prejudice. Many people did not manage. Now we have mass media and strong commercial influence, it is even harder.

How to refute the widely spread nonsense through MBFGW, in which "people from the community itself are exposing themselves"... It is not difficult to shop actors and events in any community and to present this as a kind of reality TV. Would the film pay as well if it would have been called "My Big Fat Traveller Wedding?" You see how the world Gypsy" is used? It fits better in the already existing prejudice.

The core of the problem is that educating must encourage to explore, to research. But commercial (TV) producers are not interested in researching, but in pleasing consumers with easy confirmations. Yet, they educate. They fill our minds with poison. And filled minds are difficult to enter.

We can offer true and authentic stories, film, paintings and other works of art, but are we offered their channels to spread our messages to the contrary? To de-poison the masses? I am sure that if they, the producers, could make money on that, they would immediately give us the floor.

In our commercialized world not only education (in the sense of researching, finding nuances, analysing), also justice falls prey to the love of money. It will lead to decadence. Racism is one of the symptoms of a global sickness that will affect all of us.

Comment by Stoimen on September 13, 2011 at 12:42

That is what we need IRADL for: in order to offer good food we have to get rid of the poison!

 

Comment by Kristina Burbank on September 16, 2011 at 0:17

Thank you for filling in more details. It IS personal, sensitive, and I appreciate your patience in carrying on such a thoughtful conversation.

I apologize for jumping in without proper introduction. I recognize that though we all have great purpose, the way that I sometimes choose to table issues is sometimes off putting. I am sorry for stepping on toes.

As I was writing both comments before, in the back of my mind was the realization that the group has gone through quite the thorough process with deciding to protest MBFGW.

Yet some little unidentifiable flag was waving in the back of my teacher brain demanding to be identified, so I knew I had to send my ponderings to you, knowing that we would all figure it out together eventually.

After reflecting on the new strands of conversation, here’s what I now know I need to share as an educator....As always, know it’s coming from that place of democratic collaboration for tolerant world and please take any loose crumbs with sugar and coffee, or a lump of salt as you prefer! Again, if you read in between my lines  “pretentious” or “sophomoric” or “fill-in-the-blank” - add your own SUGAR and/or SALT and smile knowing we have such a diverse team!

reminder regarding the process of change:
self-awareness-->self-acceptance-->self-esteem-->ability to change.............................................
(from content knowledge and skills of peer leadership and conflict mediation courses)

And,
even though it’s not all about me, I do now need to share pieces of my story with the group because as a teacher it is impactful to demonstrate that, as an individual in a society, I am the lesson...as are you...and because it might be exponentially powerful if IRADL gives creedance to fact that some individuals, such as myself, find esteem from the word Gypsy and that Gypsy has been a road that has actually helped some to become active tolerant citizens...just as Rromani has.

At three months old I was adopted. Effectively from birth until I was 27 I had no contact with the Finnish side of my birth family or the Finnish Gypsy/Rromani side of my birth family. We moved from Finland to northern Virginia when I was of two and by the age of three, my parents began the conversation with me that I was adopted.

Before the age of 10, probably closer to 7, I remember the knowledge that I was part Gypsy made me feel amazing, unique, and righteous. You all with children intimately know 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. As an international adoptee, what little knowledge I had of my Gypsy heritage gave me pride as I found my own way with a loving family and in a free nation.

Rromani came into my life much later, when I reconnected with my roots, but that was mostly because of European academiacs, not so much due to my extended families. By then, I had almost a decade under my belt as a mentor and teacher of teens, 6 years of that with teens from all walks of life, from all around the world, from the gang banger to girl on honor roll that shoved their newborn baby down a toilet.

My students taught me to keep it real.

The word Gypsy still gives pride, as does the word Rromnani. That is real. I share it freely, with lengthy explanations almost daily. Besides the research on best practices, I know that sharing relevant bits of my story honestly is an effective teaching tool also because the people I share it with tell me so.  

I just wanted to remind that to imply one is ignorant, a virtual fascist if choosing to use a controversial word, without rightfully recognizing the duality of the word, being situationally good or bad, separates and ostracizes, rather seeking to collaborate or untie for a more tolerant, equitable and just society. Furthermore, it is contrary to enacting effective change process because of the shaming nature...it is a dark obscure place from which to find self esteem...

Another reality is that it is inherently painful and to build equity and justice and tolerance muscles together, much like strength and endurance building process of weight lifting, muscle fibers break down and periods of rest are required for healing before getting stronger.

I share my story as another story for IRADL to consider...that maybe there are a few more pieces to the puzzle that maybe aren’t so pretty, but still fit and need to be included to make the picture complete. It’s not just about me even thought I shared my story as an example - there are others, and is this one reason why I respectfully ask our group to embrace Gypsy and Rromani somehow hand in hand as part of our educational process.

Also, I have realized that what concerns me about the IRADL conversation - that little unidentifiable flag I mentioned earlier...

I hear echoes of the notion that not all people can learn and want to respectfully offer the following (BUT if I have misunderstood, and IRADL does adhere to the fact that all can learn, then please disregard the following....)

Democratic, equitable, and humanistic education and society depend on the belief that ALL people, for their whole life long, have the potential to learn, from the developmentally delayed to the genius.

In order to learn a concept, best practices show that human beings must have at least 4-9 exposures to new data.

Not only that, best practices show that teachers must use methods that address the 7 intelligences that all human beings possess (existential, intrapersonal/interpersonal, musical/naturalist, body/kinesthetic, visual/spatial, logical/mathematical, verbal/linguistic)...All too often, even the best teachers forget and get comfortable teaching from only their strongest intelligence, leaving many students feeling confused, inferior, and irritated with the learning process, often shutting down. (This happens often with schools that teach teenagers, for example, and then, to add insult to injury, the teen gets blamed for allegedly not caring and being lazy.)  

For best practices, it is imperative that teachers must keep in mind that when a person inevitably reacts negatively to one type of learning exposures that it is really not an indication of lack of ability or will to learn, but more an expression of frustration in the learning process. The person is really asking to be taught from a different angle.

Last, but definitely not least, as educators in the 21st century, we need to meet people where they are, for example taking into consideration each individual’s origins or each person’s needs in the context of Maslow’s Hierarchy. Part of meeting me where I am, or others like me, is accepting that I view “Gypsy” in a positive light having grown up in the United States with small stints in Europe, Africa and the Middle East. My truth is that “Gypsy” raised and raises me up in a similar way that many say “Rromani” raises up many individuals in Europe. Another truth is that I refer to myself in both ways. The truth is, it is complicated because people are multi-faceted people!

ALL learners, even an adult producer of MBFGW, must be treated as though they can and want to learn. The teacher’s job is to figure out how to honor and guard the 4-9 multi-intelligenced exposures it takes for ALL students to understand each and every lesson. (Sadly, all to often, many teachers are pulled and pushed by administrative issues, that they are thrown off course, and learners are left stranded, hungry and angry.)

The most democratic educational ideal is that any time that Gypsy or Rromani are used, positively or negatively, is a time to create an appropriate, fun, and relevant teaching and learning opportunity about people for people. How do we ensure IRADL encompasses this? Is it a mute point with the other efforts of the bigger Khetanes community?

I genuinely appreciate the fact that feedback can be freely given here. Thank you for keeping it real. I hope that much good will come from this bird walk, that no one got a sugar rush or bloating from too much salt, and I trust that IRADL members will sift through to find the relevant morsels for the next steps of the process. I look forward to the lingering conversations!

Comment by Ciuin Ferrin on September 16, 2011 at 4:21

I know, another country heard from, but here is what I am coming across when dealing with university students in the US.

 

To begin with, most students here (the University of Iowa) do not even know what it means to be Gypsy, do not know the word is viewed as offensive, do not understand what is happening to Romani in Europe, or even know there are Romani in the US.

 

I've been told that the word "Gypsy" is a beautiful word because it means I love to run free, have no restrictions, and I have no cares in the world. I'm "beautiful" because I have no regard for the rest of society.

 

I've also been told that my people are criminals who deserve what they get. After all, Italy is a civilized country and would never do something that was unwarrented.

 

Shows like MBFGW, Criminal Minds, and now NCIS:LA, are going to set our work back. They are not trying to educate anyone, they've not really opened any doors for trading ideas as they are not willing to recipricate. They've done more damage and don't give a damn about the truth.

 

Btw, Glenda or Els, if you have the text of their repsonse to Dr. Hanock, I would like to see it.

 

I will have some letters and other items for you very soon. I just have to get caught up on my papers for school.

 

Yours,
C 

Comment by Glenda Bailey-Mershon on September 16, 2011 at 20:17

I did not say some people cannot learn. I said some people put up their own barriers to learning because they choose to place their own selfish motives ahead of gathering information. They are not open to learning, whether about one topic or any, and no one else can makes someone learn. We can induce, seduce, lead, encourage, but in the end, if they do not want to know, we cannot open their heads and put the information in. Though as a teacher, I have often wanted to do just that to some of my more recalcitrant students.

 

There is also the question of whether it is our obligation to teach others about Romani history and culture, of whether they have an obligation to seek it out before they spout off, write, or make a film about it. 

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