Comment by Mr. Valery Novoselsky on March 19, 2011 at 17:09

By looking on what AI, ERRC and other respected organizations are doing we can set IRADL mission`s framework. Usually they jointly participate in something. So, sometimes it would be good for IRADL to be with them in one team. And then to do something innovative.

Comment by Casimire Williamsii on March 19, 2011 at 17:46

@ Ciuin, Consensus of Reality is a very real thing from my perspective. Reality is as it is due to a huge consensus. Perhaps a major reason things are in such a state of disorder is that there is a warped consensus of reality prevailing. What is the major factor that would lead to such a thing? Humans not understanding our own belief systems. Perhaps? Now, I'm not going to say that our belief systems are good or bad. I don't have the time or energy to debate such things. It's that we don't understand them. Why? Because they can be much more subjective then even art. That can and has lead to no end of conflicts. So for me persoanlly I look at these belief systems as something that took us to this point in our evolution. No more no less, not good or bad, they just are. I think one goal of IRADL is to go beyond the myths that these belief systems have imposed on us. That we are IN REALITY beautiful products of evolution. That is what attracted me to this site, because art can express this better then anything else.

I mentioned in an earlier post that we're in the middle of a very brutal genocide, that is the REALITY of the situation. It has been 65 years since WWII and people are being led into the death camps once again. What else can you call the lead mines of Kosovo? That should make very clear the urgency of the situation..A very brutal genocide is being applied to our people. So when you say it will take some time...well...have already had 65 years now to do something.  I see the wisdom that those who have started the ADL. Now, all the social networks are in place, Valery has an E-Mail publication in place and I hear that there are 20K followers to that. Yeah Valery, I'm challenging you! There are blogs, F/B pages, and all manner of web-sites. They have been doing an very excellent job of pointing out what the problems are. But that is only half of the solution. Organization and solidarity is the only way (that I can see) out of the shadows. 

I am not a mysic or some kind of new age person. I am talking about being a realist. If you indulge in the notion that making such a thing as the IRADL reality. And then in reality it will take a long time to do so, if at all. This marvelous network of technology can used to change the consensus of reality within our community...then nothing is beyond the realm of possibility. Electeicity travels at something like 187,000 miles an hour, it has been said that thoughts travel faster then the speed of light. So a concept can really get around quick these days!

I am relying on history of the Civil Rights movement here in the States. And constantly pointing out effective leaders such as Cesar Chavez and MLK jr as excellent examples. The ADL and the American Indian Movement.

Casimire X   

 

 

 

Comment by Casimire Williamsii on March 19, 2011 at 18:04

I was an Ophthalmic Tech and Optician in my lifetime, one thing I learned is that light bends. Our eyes bend light and change it into electro chemical energy. How marvelous, what beautiful products of evolution we truly are. So if light can bend and energy can change forms. Well hells bells, good people, anything is possible! That is reality, this reality can be applied to you're belief system and can quickly become a consensus of reality at a speed of 187,000 MPH. Look through a telascope and you are traveling through time, faster then the speed of light.  

Casimire X

Comment by roxana marin on March 19, 2011 at 21:41

i dont see so much unclarity, really:)

like you say, we all go on with what we normally do, and try to support each other's initiatives inasmuch as we like them/believe they are a good idea.

like els says, we all do whatever we do not because we are told to, but because an idea comes for action and we follow it because of who we are and what we believe in.

iradl is a group of people who support each other with the main objective of promoting gypsy artists and addressing romaphobia. the group also works as a sounding board for individual ideas and initiatives.
els and lukas have assumed the role of creating opportunities for members and growing the organization, and for that i have a lot of respect.

i think we can all contribute to the growth and prestige of iratl by popularizing it within our own networks.
the group's just forming really, lets give it a bit of time to grow and mature before we can talk about an agenda with specific roles and deadlines.
the rome event is the first of significant proportions.
i know els and lukas are doing their best to make iratl known to european players and access resources that may help more roma artists perform or display their work around the world.

your/our letter was a great thing, and i was happy to be part of it - as i am sure you appreciated the feedback and support. i am also glad that you gave me an idea of something to do as a followup of your letter, and that is to watch and monitor films picturing roma people and keeping track of film-makers and unions they belong to - here in europe.

so you see, there's a bunch of concrete things going on - and some of those happened because of an action plan (the rome thing, contacts made to european players) and others not (your letter, my research that begins now - and who knows what may come of it).
in addition, we all continue with our busy lives right? and every time we have an idea, a doubt, a question or we're simply pissed off and need to vent, we come here and share. as a grassrooter, i think it's all good and really i wouldnt have it any other way - for these first few months at least:)
xo,
roxana

Comment by roxana marin on March 19, 2011 at 22:00

I'm with you Els, and you have my admiration and love for all you have accomplished in these few months. I agree especially that having a board from the beginnign would have deprived the group of the life its growing as it's forming naturally.
I will help by collecting addresses of Artists' Associations, Media, Radio and TV orgs. I am also inviting artist friends to join us, and to make Gypsy art more visible and strong. Art is one of the most powerful weapons against thick-headedness:))
Big hug to all,
Roxana

Comment by Casimire Williamsii on March 19, 2011 at 22:31

Ciuin, I am trying to encourage you all to think in a non-linear manner. Also when I suggest that you look to history of the Civil Rights Movement, Ciuin then the answer to your question is there. I am not advocating violence of any kind here. But let's look at the Civil War here in the United States. One reason why the Federal Government prevailed was because of a "new invention" called the telegraph. Logistics could be maintained in real time, otherwise you had to wait for a messenger. Today we have all these fantistic means of communication and social networking. And if you look at what is happening in the mid-east today, FaceBook is a huge factor. If you talk to many Americans they will say racist thinks like; "those people [in the Mid East] don't want democracy and they are not capable of it" Well, it is becoming obvious that is just a racist/ethnic stereo-type. The same kind of misconceptions surround the Romani People, perhaps much worse because it gets to the level of being weaved into our myths and belief systems. Old stories and myths like we are the son's of Cain or forged the nails that hung Christ. Should be easy to get pst that weak arguement. 

I think that Mahatma Ghandi is a good place to start and fitting, considering it is said that we originated from India. Key word here is he ORGANIZED his people! Then by mostly using passive resistance, they expelled a huge super power out of their country. They marched and boycotted textiles from England. Then Martin Luther King Jr. used the same tactics (based on Gandhi's) and accomplished a great deal for his people. Same as Cesar Chavez, he marched, he advocated boycotts. The American Indian Movement, they took over Alcatraz Island. It was useless property, the site of a former federal prison and a nesting place for sea birds. So when they took it over it was merely a symbolic gesture. They declaied it Sovereign Native American Territory. The comical thing was that President Nixon took this as a direct threat and it became a stand off with Federal authorities. But what it did do is get the worlds attention to the plight of the Native American People. Now many Indian Reservations consider themselves Sovereign Territory and have gaming and such.

So to answer you're question Ciuin the first step is to get organized and have solidarity. Els is correct, we are kind, but as Cesar Chavez said; "don't mistake our kindness for weakness". Use the internet to organize, if some prime minister is going to give an anti Romani speach, then get on FaceBook and encourage people to protest. Find a little patch of land somewhere, occupy it just like the American Indian Movement and call it Romanistan. Even if you hold it for a short time you will have the world's attention. There are huge tracts of land in Montana that we could aquire. Hell, if you had the ACLU behind you, it could be in Federal Courts for decades. If you have a country, even a symbolic one then you can demand a seat at the UN. Impossible? Who knows? I would love to make my little house the Romanistan Embassy here in Portland. The diplomatic pouches could be a real groove and no property taxes!

Step 1. The first step has already been accomplished and all of you have done an excellent job of it! You have idenitified what and where the problems are. The apparatus has been in place for quite a long time. We have been using the internet and social networks for years to idenitify the problems. So we have made great strides in that regard. But pointing out the problems is only half of the solution. 

Step 2. Use that same internet medium and all that is in place to start a Romani & Traveler Civil Rights Movement that is based on what has been effective in the past. That means getting organized, The ADL has been very effective and the IRADL could be what binds us together. A medium that could get us organized, we have the internet and social network in place. People have excellent blogs and web-sites. It is all there. FaceBook and such things are the biggest mixed bag in history. It can be used for hate or useless mundane things or it can be the greatest tool we have. It is all there and we're poised to utilize it, ha, we just don't know it yet and that is the only thing that keeps it from being a reality. So we are almost there, all is in place, poised for action.

Conclusion: The network is in place, you have the tools in place, All you have to do is redirect the energy that is there. Sounds simplistic? Well that is the beauty of it!

Orgaization and Solidarity

Casimire X  

 

 

 

Comment by Ciuin Ferrin on March 19, 2011 at 23:09

I'm not asking for that. Posts deleted. Have a pleasant night.

 

Devlesa,

C

Comment by Niko Rergo on March 19, 2011 at 23:44

T'aven baxtale savore!
Ciuin, just imagine: 1988, the perestroika in the USSR, wind of freedom... 1989, we constitute the first Roma org (pure cultural), independence in 1991... euphoria... many words and dreams of the ethnic renaissance, equal rights, justice, in a word - 'egalite et fraternite'. We, Roma intellectuals ( 20 in Ukraine, to say nothing of the singers and dancers), had had this euphoria too, we believed and trusted, we started to do, to plan, to gather, to unite, to request, to.. to.. to... But politicians changed, slogans changed, promises remained... And frustration came. Because nothing was being changing in the Roma life, attitudes becoming even worse. They, the AUTHORITY, had other problems, and our problems didn't fit in.For instance, they thought they had to preserve in the social mentality 'figures of enemy' ('image of enemy' as it is said here). These figures, in the Soviet time, for years were cosmopolitans, capitalists, imperialists, opportunists... and many peoples - Jews, Crimean Tatars, Chechens, Roma... In this long run they eventually 'chosen' us (political and economical interests made them to 'cancel enmity' of the Jews, Caucasians, Arabs, even Tatars). Frustration... But on the other pan of the Scales of Justice were and are those Roma who never had chance to become intellectual... And we're not in the Sisyphean task - you know this wise saying: Little strokes fell great oaks. And believe me, our first frustration turned to become first confidence, the second - conviction, the third, the 4th, and I don't know how many we had, but finally we got wisdom. It's the way of cognition. Do the Roma people need you? Have no doubt, sister, we do.

Comment by Casimire Williamsii on March 20, 2011 at 0:37

Ciuin, Why the heck did you deleate your posts? I thought we were having a good & constructive dialog here? Now, all that we have ran down here is disjointed. When I said that talking studio brass was akin to trying to reason with rabid pitt bulls with the clap, this was based on scientific facts and real life experience. Not trying to say it will not work or belittle you're efforts. Suggested that you send to many more people, ones that perhaps will actually be moved.  I think that you're letter was excellent and I feel that it can be recycled and even be used as a basis for a statement of purpose. You yourself posted the letter and asked for input. Now your letter is gone from this page, I consider that a loss.

When I suggest non linier thinking...Hmmm let me think. If we turn this movement into a war, then doomed from the start, war is linier thing. Well we are not in a positition to wage war and that is not something Roma ever do. But if we do things that are totally non linier then we can prevail. There is an old story from Japan. A young Samurai challenged an older one to a duel, just to make a name for himself. The Old Master told him; sure kid I'll fight you but I want to die on that little island out in the middle of the lake. So he rowed the youngster out to the island and when he jumped onto the pier the Old Guy shoved off and left him stranded on the island. Who won? Winning without winning! You can think for years on that little koan. 

So all I am trying to  do (and most likely being too long winded about it) is to suggest we use our creativity as Artists to show that we are truly the beautiful products of evolution we are. No different then anyone else. That history really does repeat itself. The plight of the Romani people (today) closely parallel what was going on with disenfranchised people in this country. And what effective measures some excellent leaders took. From my perspective there is a very brutal genocide being applied so that lends a real sense of urgency to the whole movement.

So that is basically all I have to offer all of you. All I have to say. If I have made any of you uncomfortable I'll apologize then I will be the one happy to depart. I have had 5 major surgeries in as many years, two heart attacks, and I have been unemployed for quite a while. I have my own irons on the coals to worry about as well.

Casimire X

Casimire

 

 

 

 

 

     

Comment by Ciuin Ferrin on March 20, 2011 at 1:16

Dear all,

 

I am not gone, nor do I want anyone to leave. I deleted only the posts that were being misunderstood and causing a problem. I failed to get my frustrations and feelings clear, therefore I felt I was causing more harm by leaving them up. I took them down so others would not read them tomorrow and continue to reply.

 

The letter is not gone and if I accidently deleted it, I can repost it. No harm there.

 

I had no problems with what you suggested, Casimere, about the results of the letter. I know damn well that little, if anything, will come of that letter or any that I send out. Hollywood isn't intersted in a minority, especially one that wasn't going to buy the Criminal Minds set anyway.

 

As far as the linear thinking, I would have to disagree with you. Creative minds think in many ways, but in order to allow the creative to be creative, someone has to be there to do the jobs no one wants to do. Pay the rent, fundraise, organize, lick the envelopes. God gives everyone their roles and some people are better fit for linear ways.

 

What I was asking for is something I can't get is all. I was not asking for anything with an evening gown or a fancy office or other such things. I wanted direction. I wanted someone to say "here is where we are going. This is our goal." I understand we have a project going of collecting data for the declaration. But it is a project, not a goal.

 

I understand we have little time and much to do. As I type this, there is hell going on in the Czech Republic. Romani children are hungry and their parents are tired. There is little hope for them if their children can't go to school. What I do, I do for them.

 

I've been told I have 'bad Romanesa' as I prefer to see a plan on paper.  Vadim tells me I need to relax, to go with whatever happens, but I'm not built that way. It is wonderful, amazing, to attend his concerts, but someone has to get the venue and fill the seats.

 

So where is the IRADL going? What is our goal? How can we achieve that goal? No, I don't need the answers tonight or even next week, but I want to know that someone (other than Els) is considering a platform (or perhaps a basement) for this house we are building.

 

Consider this: We send out a letter to someone influencial. They see the letter is from The International Romani Anti-Defamation League. Wow! Never heard of them before. Better look them up. Oh? No address? No website? Who are these guys? And it ends there. 

 

Time is short. We know that. Actions speak louder than words. We are Romani and we are very well aware of that! Everyone likes to word us to death. We are under attack. I'm often asked if the Romani feel we are in another Holocaust. I hate to say it, but I fear we are. If time is short, why not plan?

 

Baxt,

C

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